1excincy. We agree it takes “common sense”, but… that’s not really stating a position, is it? Perhaps you are correct that “the Lord gave some of us too much credit”, but again, that’s not really saying anything. Your concluding remark seems to indicate you agree that “believers” should not FORCE (personally or through governmental agencies) their beliefs upon others. (Yet I have my reservations that that was your intention). ‘8^)

Jim - it can all be summed up in two words - common sense. Maybe the Lord gave some of us too much credit. And as far as imposing a penalty for non-compliance, these verses are for believers.

CJCincy3772. I am impressed that you read more than merely the one verse I quoted. Kudos to you! I believe the verse you are referring to is 1 Timothy 2:9 which states, “In like manner also, that women ADORN themselves in MODEST APPAREL, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly ARRAY.” (KJV, Emphasis mine). You claim modesty “means pretty much for a woman to not expose her breasts or bottom”. Does it or is that a deep-seated prejudice we are raised to believe? The English word modest can mean: 1. Humble; 2. Shy; 3. Reasonable; 4. Simple; or 5. Not overtly sexual. (Interesting fact - the fifth meaning is a modern definition and, therefore, not applicable to this discussion. (See 1828 online dictionary)). So which was Paul’s meaning? Paul used the Greek word, “Kosmios”, (translated as “modest”). According to Stong this word means, “orderly or decorous”. Paul also used the word “Kosmeo” (translated as “adorn”), which means, “to put in proper order, that is, decorate, (adorn, garnish, trim)”. Finally, the context of the verse clarifies Paul’s meaning. “Not with broided hair”, (fancy hairdos); “or gold or pearls”, (flashy jewelry); “or costly array”, (lavish clothing). I read nothing here regarding covering the breasts (or ANY other body part). 1 of 2. (Continued).

2 of 2. The word “apparel” used in this verse is translated from the Greek “Katastole” which means “a deposit, that is, costume”. Oddly enough this is the ONLY occurrence in the Bible of this Greek word. The common Greek words for clothing are “Himation” (used 61 times in the New Testament) and “Himatiamos” (used 6 times in the New Testament including this verse translated as “array”). With this understanding it becomes clear that Paul’s use of the word modest (Kosimios) should be defined as “reasonable and simple” and his subject is not women’s clothing (Himation) but rather her adornments (Kosmeo), that is her jewelry, hairdos, baubles, trinkets, etc. I agree with you that “believers” should dress modestly (however you wish to interpret that). Regardless of the meaning we wish to infer on this verse does the Bible instruct “believers” to enforce this dress code on non-believers? If so, what penalty is listed for non-compliance? More importantly, is dress code enforcement a legitimate role for government?

Just an fyi - I Timothy talks about dressing with modesty. I don't think going topless can ever be considered modest.

CJCincy, Once a man told me he is a man and supposed to be the head of the household and I, a woman, was to obey him, according to the bible. I told this man, fine, we'll go by that just as soon as he obeys everything else the bible says for him to do and not to do. A person can't pick and choose to their satisfaction, which biblical laws they want to follow. If a person can't follow all the laws, don't expect someone else to follow what pleases you. IT DON'T WORK LIKE THAT!

Jim: read some more in 1 Tim -- I do believe it is written that a woman should dress modesty -- which means pretty much for a woman to not expose her breasts or bottom. If she wants to strengthen her upper muscles, I think lifting weights would do the trick. Besides that, I wonder how she dresses the rest of the time when she is not swimming topless.

I would say morals are of God, and criminal is of man. If man mixes the two, then man has to decide. Murder is wrong by God and Man, so sometimes they mix anyway. I don't know the answer. I say follow Gods Laws and you won't break any of mans laws. Except where man can make money! :)

CJCincy3772, sorry, I cannot find any reference in the Bible that indicates this behavior (swimming topless) is wrong. If you are aware of any such verses I will be happy to consider them. I do know that Adam and Eve were naked in the Garden of Eden until they ate of the forbidden fruit and decided for themselves that nudity was something to be ashamed of. (Please note that was MAN’S determination and not a decree from God). I agree with you that this woman has some issues and, perhaps, even an agenda. Where I differentiate from you and all the others is in HOW we deal with it. In my opinion we should live our lives according to our own beliefs and conscious. We should raise our children by our values and convictions and we should be an example to our neighbors by how we live our lives! (1 Timothy 4:12). The government is not now, has never been, nor ever will be MY Moral Compass! I hope it is not yours.

Chenoosesmom, there is not one thought in your last comment I dispute with the POSSIBLE exception of: “my comment has nothing to do with Christianity”. I agree with your assessment that she lacks common decency and common sense. Shall we make it a crime to lack common sense or common decency? Our Founders claimed that our form of government was only for a moral and religious people. Why? Because while the government ALLOWED all behavior, provided it did not harm others, it was our morality (NOT the law) which kept us from doing that which was wrong. As such I believe society has a right to speak out against behavior it deems inappropriate or offensive provided it does not use the strong arm of the government to forcibly impose OUR WILL upon others. IMHO.